The Art of Delegation

 today we are talking about the art of delegation.

This is something that I talk about a lot with people I coach. This is probably something that I talk about when I am seeing if we're a good fit to begin with.

This is something I talk about with my kids, with my husband, within my church service, everywhere.

So I know I normally say I'm excited for guests, but this is, top tier excited. So today I have with me Gina Cotner, and she is with Athena Executive Services. it is a firm that pairs virtual executive assistants around the United States with swamped and successful entrepreneurs and executives, and she is somebody I've asked to be on the show.

I wanted to give that quick shout-out because this is so needed. So let me continue reading, but I wanted to give that. So, really listen in. Stop your scrolling while you're listening to this, and, be here. Be present with us. So her team of high caliber executive assistants work part-time from home, taking many tasks and projects off the plate of successful people, leaving them free to spend their time where they are needed most.

And I actually wanna add to that, it's also spending time in their passions, why they started this business to begin with. She has worked remotely for over 15 years on national and international teams. More recently, she has focused on the work/life balance, wellness, and personal satisfaction of busy professionals.

She's known for developing leaders and having them rise up around her. It's hard to see around my microphone over here. Gina, thank you for being here, and thank you for saying yes to me. I know I was a out of the blue reach out, but I am so glad you're here, and this topic is so needed, and I can see this having so many listens because so many people need it, and I know as I sign up clients, I'm gonna be like, "Here's something you need to listen to," as I'm signing you up.

So thank you, thank you.

Good. My pleasure. I'm excited to be here.

So let me start with my questions, 'cause I have several, so hopefully this will keep me mostly on track. the first one is

why do some of the most capable and successful people have such a hard time letting go and delegating?

Yeah, that's a good question.

honestly, I think it... I should probably take on a project to go dive deeper into that. But it's societal, I believe, right? It's literally how our society was formed. We inherited hundreds of years of do it yourself and pull yourself up by your bootstraps, and if you don't, it doesn't, kinda doesn't count,

So you... And then you look at, how we all, our educational system, right? you need to take a test by yourself. You need to not cheat. You need to not collaborate. You need to not talk to anybody around you, and you need to handle it on your own, right? We are a very handle-it-on-your-own society. And I mean, you look, you think of, high school or college.

I mean, I remember in college, right, group projects. Blah. who wants to be in a group project? They're like, "Okay, so now in Marketing 101, we're gonna do a group project," and we're all just, cringing. a group project society. It, at least in terms of how we got successful, right? How did we get the grades?

How did we get into college? How did we get that internship? How did we... It was all like our personal success. But then somewhere along the way we run into some wall because somewhere we realize, wait, but I have these goals, I have this vision, I have this mission, all of which, if it's worth its salt anywhere, it is way bigger than you can handle.

So now we're screwed 'cause then we're like, well, you either gotta reduce your goals, your vision, your mission, what you're passionate about, maybe what you're even walking the planet for, you gotta dumb that down to fit what one human being can do, or you gotta figure out how to work as a team, and you gotta figure out how to collaborate and how to brainstorm, and scary, how to value other people's input, which, I've been at work on the last few years.

'Cause the more successful you are, the harder it is. 'Cause the more ingrained it is, well, I know I'm the founder and CEO of a company, and we've been around 10 years. How many of y'all done that? Okay, we hit a million dollars. How many of y'all done that? I get more and more dug in about what I think is right, and it gets...

It takes more and more effort for me to Wanna collaborate and, and let go. So there you go. There's the start of a two-hour long conversation we could have about that.

I love that, and I feel like I want to ask so many follow-up questions, but I need to read again. Okay, yes, so number two is better than my follow-up question that I was gonna ask.

So let me ask you question number two.

How can a leader tell the difference between something that truly needs their attention and something they're holding onto because it feels uncomfortable to give up control?

That is hard. it's kinda how can you see yourself? how do you watch yourself?

And I, I mean, lately my, kinda what I've been telling myself and others is if it can be done by somebody else, you gotta do that. You've gotta give it away. So I, I think that's maybe one little litmus test is can this be done by somebody else? Okay, well that's step one. Yes, it could be, and yes, p- people are uncomfortable giving up control.

I think they're also pitted against, ugh, the amount of time it's gonna take me to explain to somebody how to do this thing. I could've just done the darn thing myself. Which is accurate. So you can also hold onto stuff, A, 'cause you just think nobody can do it as well as you can, which might also be accurate, but I'll tell you, the bigger of a leader you become and the bigger of an organization you're trying to run, you soon learn that somebody doing it, whatever it is, the project, the task, 80% as well as you would while you're working on something else is insanely valuable.

No, they may not do it as well as you do. That's fine. You'll go put the finishing touches on it, or maybe 80% is good enough, right? That great phrase, don't let perfection be the killer of good. It's like, yeah, my executive assistant may not do it exactly like I do it, but is she gonna move that thing way down, that, move that project way forward while I'm moving a whole other project way forward?

Yay, now we have two projects 80% of the way down the field versus me holding it all. So- That's another big, long, juicy topic you got there

Some people have the fear of what if they do it better than me?

Yeah. Yeah. Good. Nobody wants to talk about that. Yeah, let's talk about it. a- and then there's a flip. I will say, as a business owner, there is now a flip that was there. oh, wow, w- what am I worth? W- am I just sitting around drawing a fat salary and I'm not I'm not providing much?

and your role does shift. Right now, the person who runs my company, she's 15 years younger than me, and she does a ton of things better than me, and a ton of things that I've given up trying to even do well. I mean, I just go to her and say, "Dorian, tell..." I now work for her even though I'm her boss.

I say, "Dorian, what do you need from me? How do I get myself out of the way? How do I keep her empowered?" This is, this is the beginning of, how do you turn over real heavy lifting, not just projects and, and tasks, is, yeah, surrounding yourself with people who will do it better than you. Now who are you gonna have to be?

Well, and let's talk about that, because before we hit record,

you talked about how you work, you said 15-hour weeks, was that correct? And then you are now putting into your wellness bank account instead. Talk about that and talk about why that matters, and how that can be what you do instead of working on another project.

Yeah. Yeah. Once you get some mastery, I'll just say, at delegation and start turning things over, you're literally buying yourself more time. Now, that sounds awesome, sounds super dreamy. That's all anybody wants. "Okay, just give me more time back." But now you gotta be careful. What are you gonna do with that time?

Work more? And maybe yes, right? Maybe you are at a phase or a stage in life, a season, where it's like, no, we are pressing. We are pressing in. We are after a particular goal by a particular time. But it's, when you get some time on your hands, now you've got some interesting questions. So I do spend a fair amount of time...

Now I'm also aging, so it's also shocking me how much time I need to be spending. why do I have to go here, and why do I have to deal with that? Okay, well, you could not deal with that ache and pain, and then have fun with that. See what will come from not listening to your body, not tending to that. I was just at my chiropractor yesterday, right?

So I go to my chiropractor every other week. I'm starting up with a physical therapist. I'm a beginner golfer, but I'm a pretty strong tournament-level pickleball player. And, that's not easy always on my 54-year-old body. and I just played in a pretty hardcore tournament down in Santa Barbara, California, and, it took me days to recover from that.

I've started leaning into my passions, and some of my passions are very athletic, so then now I've got to spend more time tending to things on what I call my physical plant, the body, more time than I want to, frankly. I've freed myself up to do other projects. But I'm also very clear that what I do now in my 50s is gonna say a lot about how my 70s and my 80s go.

So I'm a big believer in terms of my wellness, pay now or pay later. So invest now, the time, the money, the experts, the who do I want to surround myself with, so that when I'm 75, I'm still a senior athlete. So there's so... It, it's, it's a great question. what do you do with your time? Do you just...

I mean, I guess I just would say people gotta just slow down and really look. Okay, I just bought myself two extra hours this week. Woo-hoo. What do I need to do? I don't know. Probably sleep. That's probably, when my operations manager who runs my company comes to visit me and we have a retreat, I, my number one priority is, 'cause she's got two little kids, right?

She- my number one priority is that she gets one or two really good nights sleep. I'm gonna have a better operations manager who's well rested than, "Okay, we gotta talk about these 20 things, and we gotta get these goals sorted, and we gotta get these plans sorted out." mm-mm. There's just nothing more valuable than wellness and, I think one of the biggest keys to that is sleep.

Oh, I love that. There's so many things. You and I can be friends. We'll, we'll, we'll, we'll friendship later, because I do pickleball. I'm thinking about doing golf, 'cause I think that will... Well, learning golf, because I think that will actually help with, being around more of my ideal client referrals, because my ideal client is somebody who has, is willing to work with somebody like you or has, and now they have the time that, "Let's take care of the rest of your life."

Your career, your business, the company you work for, if you're higher level, is doing well. You've met that goal. Now you're looking at your life and you want that to do well, and you're not sure how to get there.

Yeah.

And

I would-

Work with me. That's my thing right there. Yeah.

And I would offer to I would offer to a lot of people to flip the philosophy on that, right?

We always think, "Well, when I have time, I'll golf more. When I have time, I'll play pickleball more." So I originally used pickleball as one of the ways to get out of the way of my managers, of my company, so I wouldn't keep haw- being like a hawk over them. "Gina, you gotta get out of the way." And I would say the same thing for wellness.

It's a chunk of time to golf. That's a chunk of time. It's a chunk of time to go play two hours of pickleball. But putting that stuff into your calendar and now forcing yourself to fulfill your business goals- With the remaining time, I think is the key. So I was never gonna work 60 or 80 hours a week.

And partly why I only work 15 hours a week is I make myself go do other things with my time, and it forces me to have to fulfill what I'm out to fulfill in less and less and less and less and less time.

Yeah. And I love how you are talking about how you are working in prevention with your wellness, as well as fixing things that you should've been working on.

We all have that. Yeah. Don't go in the guilt. We all have that in some area.

Yeah.

Work on it before it becomes, think of it like, I don't know, your oil gauge of you're out of oil now.

Exactly.

Your engine's about to explode. you don't wanna get ER, that type of thing. and this brings me to the next question, and this is the delegation part.

Delegation is usually talked about as a produc- productivity strategy.

How does learning to delegate affect a leader's wellbeing, relationships, and life outside of work? We've already hinted at that, but, let's hit that nail on the head now.

Yeah. So it's really easy to be like, "Self-care. I need to spend more time on self-care.

I need to spend more time with my family. I should always be there for dinner with them. I should go to Joey's soccer game more." Yeah But just making it a priority, you gotta carve out time. All of that takes time, right? Unfortunately, the most well people in this country are the people who have the time and money to be well.

You can carve- you've gotta carve out the time for that, and I, I just think the best way to do it is to delegate. So what's on your plate that could actually be done by somebody else? What could be given away? And for a lot of people listening,

one of the quickest, fastest things you can do is stop having things end up on your plate, right?

You're the super nice person at the committee meeting that says, "Yes, sure, I'll pick up donuts." No. No. Somebody else can pick up donuts. But if I don't, who will? Well, if you do, we sure as shootin' aren't gonna find out. So stop solving other people's problems. You can be just as delightful and nice and caring and all of that while not raising your hand, while not ha ha ha.

 not... It, it, so much of it is, dare I say, us women, right? There just is a thing. yeah, I can pick that up on the way to such and so. I'm going that way anyway. But what if you didn't? And what if you got home 10 minutes earlier because of it? And what if you actually sat down and had a cup of tea?

And what if you actually took the dishes out of the dishwasher and did something for you and your family than squeeze in a 10-minute errand for somebody else? So you can start by not having things land on your plate, but then once your plate's full, yeah, what can you delegate? You can hire an assistant, right?

That's what our firm does. That's awesome. But there's a lot of people that are offering to do things if you listen for it and you be a yes. So back to the first question you asked me, right, all these capable and successful people, right? We're so gotta do it ourselves, right? So somebody says, "Can I help you with that?"

And we will say, "No, I'm good." Well, what if you just said yes? Yeah, I'd love your help with that. Yeah, could you carry that into the house? I'd love that. Oh, yeah, I'd love your help with that. How about just be a yes to all the help that's trying to come your way is part of it. Ooh,

I love that.

And then there's little things.

I mean, there's little things, right? It doesn't cost me anything to have my local grocery store do my grocery shopping for me, and then I just go pick it up. I could even have it delivered. Okay? That buys me an hour. Now, I enjoy grocery shopping, but is that the highest and best use of me? No. Really, no.

I mean, there's just certain things I'm not gonna get wrapped around the axle about. Okay? If that avocado that they pick is a little hard, fine, I'm gonna put it in a paper bag, and whatever meal I was gonna have with that avocado that was supposed to be tomorrow, we're gonna have that later in the week when that avocado's ripe.

I am... I don't need to fight that fight. I don't... That's not the highest and best use of me. The highest and best use of me might be taking a nap for that hour, not going through the grocery store. So there's a lot of free ways to delegate

Oh, so many thoughts on this. I love the yes to when people offer help.

That is something that I don't think about enough, and it made me think about, oh, I can't tell you how many years ago it was, maybe f- four years ago, three years. Anyway, time, what is time? My husband and I, for our anniversary, we have, probably mostly me. He's an empath, a pleaser. I think it was me and then it turned into we, one of those.

I've always wanted to ride in a hot air balloon, so we did. Super fun. We had a friend watch all our kids. They were scared to see us go 'cause little kids. Mom and Dad are leaving, anything could happen. Also, it's noisy, all of this. But what was amazing is watching the, I forget what he's even called, the guy who was doing the hot air balloon.

The pilot, I think? I think they still call it a pilot. We're, we're gonna call him that, even if I'm wrong. The pilot of the hot air balloon was set up. People were interested and they were coming over, so he's like, "Hey, you wanna come help out?" He had free help for setting up and for taking down, and he even put it down in somebody's backyard because they have to follow the air currents, and it just happened to be there, and it was in s- totally in somebody's backyard, and they didn't care.

Actually, I don't think that person, that person-- It was long ago. I have to remember the story. They were getting ready to go out to eat, and they're like, "Yeah, it's totally fine." he asked as, we're a f- couple feet off the ground. He could've easily brought it back up and found somewhere else. and some other people were interested, like some neighbors.

They came down, and he's like, "Hey, you wanna come help do this?" And he did it in a very inclusive way, and it has stuck with me. It's something I haven't thought about for a while, but I did for many years, of I need to be more like that, of, "Hey, do you wanna come enjoy whatever it is that we're doing?" He had free employees that helped fold it all up.

He made us do it, too. Not only did we pay for it, but, we're helping and it's, was part of the experience. And these other people walked away happy and- It'd be interesting to reach out to him and be like, "How many..." It's been enough years that he wouldn't remember, but how many people turned around and then went and did a hot air balloon ride with him because they had a really good experience helping with setting it up and tearing it down?

Yeah, or they had a great story to tell their friends over dinner for the next many, many months.

Right? And ooh, them. For

real, right

there. Yeah. Yeah. Just a really great business plan. I'm, it'd be interesting to talk with him because actually his mother-in-law is my masseuse. I found out, I don't remember how.

I was getting a massage and somehow we connected the dots together. but it'd be interesting to set a, set aside with him, be like, "Where did you learn that business plan?" Because that is so cool. just- Yeah ... that way of life. And then, the other thought is, it was a podcast episode that, it's called Mindset Mentor, so I'll do a shout-out to him.

Can't remember what episode, title, or number it was or anything, but he talked about how we often say yes when we should say no. And s- start with, start by saying, "Let me think about that," instead of saying yes or no right away, and really thinking about that, especially if you're some type of pleaser. Just giving yourself that minute or the next day to give them an answer Mind changing.

Yep. Yeah.

Yep. Yep. I'll give you one to go with that. I love that one, and, a lot of times I will say to people, and I train other people to say to people, "Let me look." And, I got my phone, right? People are like, "What are you doing October 5th?" I'm like, "Let me look." And I know that's not the best use of my time or I might not enjoy it or whatever, and then I will say, I always thank them for the invitation 'cause I love to be invited.

Who doesn't love to be invited? And I appreciate that they honestly did invite me. I don't want them to stop inviting me to things. So I say, "Thank you so much for that. I'm really sorry, I'm not available."

And sometimes it's, "I'm not available 'cause I'm gonna be in my PJs and watching a movie." It doesn't have

to be- And that's end of sentence

yeah. Nobody's gonna say to you, "Really? Why? What are you doing?"

Unless maybe they're your mother.

That's exactly.

And you can still tell them, "I'm not available. I have plans."

Yeah. I have plans. It doesn't matter what those plans are. Like you said, the plans are I'm taking a nap. But I just say, "Gosh, I lo- so love the invite.

Thank you so much, and I'm not available then," or, "I'm not available for that." And they just, people just move right on.

Yeah. And then my last thought with what you were saying is with taking a nap, I, we got back from camping, and I was really good about using bug spray, but because everyone else in my family was, they still bit me.

and I have a huge histamine response to bug bites. they turn into welts. They're usually itchy for two weeks. I have prescription medicine that, I was given for poison ivy, and the doctor happened to mention this will also work for bug bites. I'm like, "I'll remember that." Well, I got low. I asked the doctor for it, and it made a huge difference.

Anyway, I did not sleep well that night that I got back because I was itchy. I even did ice packs. I had Benadryl. I tried all things. And the next day, right, extended weekend, I needed to catch up on all the things, house stuff, business stuff, me stuff, all the laundry. And I had somebody reschedule, and I had that time, and I realized the best use of my time, and I felt guilty and that I had talked myself out of it, was taking a nap.

Do how much better I was for myself, my business, my family, all of it? It reset, so I was able to sleep better that night.

Yep, exactly Ah And for those people listening who have staff, you've gotta, as the leader, the owner, the big boss, you've gotta be the voice for that. I tell people, "Stop working."

Like, they need... I'll go, "Go rest." "Well, I'm gonna..." "No, I don't want you sending any more emails. Stop." And they're shocked. My staff is shocked. they're like, "This is the first place I've ever worked where, you guys actually walk the talk, not just we want you to be well." But that's exactly why, because who's gonna send that email tomorrow?

That's the person I want, not the one that's exhausted and burned out at 4:00 in the afternoon. "No, just call it a day." we are, we're not working on- Yeah, then it

becomes a snippy email instead of a nice one where they get

to rest It... Who knows? Yeah. Inaccuracies, typos, something not excellent. And I'm like, "No, wait till it's gonna be excellent.

And meanwhile, go get well."

I love that. Okay, one last question, and then the rest we'll put into the newsletter, the rest that I was going to ask you. And this is the first time I'll talk about it. I had this great idea, because I am also a podcast listener, but I do it while I'm gardening or going for a walk or some kind of exercise, and then the next one pops up.

And there's times where there were questions asked that I wanna go back on and I wanna reflect on, but then I can't find that podcast episode. And I know I'm not the only one. So I had the idea of when we talk about these questions in podcasts, it's also going to be included in the newsletter. So jump on my newsletter.

And we're gonna dive a little bit deeper. So when Gina is done with this and she has that, "Oh, I wish I talked about this," or, "I wanna add this thought," it's going to be in the newsletter, because she's going to email me it. So jump on the newsletter. So last question, and let me do a quick scan to make sure it's a good one

Yes, this one, it totally goes with what you're saying. You're known for developing leaders and having them rise up around you.

What does healthy accountability look like without a leader consistently checking, reminding, or stepping back in? So not micromanaging.

Yeah. Yeah, boy, you're gonna get developed.

You're gonna develop yourself, owners, business leaders, CEOs, in trust. You really are, and it really looks like trusting people. And you've gotta be very clear what you want and when you wanna hear from them. we like to be sort of vague 'cause we're afraid if we're too specific, now we're being a jerk or we're being a whatever.

We're not gonna be liked. No, your being sort of general and vague is not helpful, right? You having a conversation with somebody and saying, "Here's what I need. Given all that you have to do and handle, when can you have that done?" And Autumn says, "I can have that done by end of Tuesday." And I go, "Great. I look forward to seeing that at the end of Tuesday."

And then I give myself an alarm Wednesday morning. I wake up and I look and see, did Autumn do the thing? And then there's a whole series of conversations I have after that. If she does, I just say, "Thank you." If she didn't, I say, "What got in the way?" But I have a, I have a pretty... Doesn't need to take long, but it needs to be, I need to be clear they are owning this now, and they've said, they've chosen, they've selected when they're gonna have it be done.

Great. So this is theirs. It's gonna be done by Tuesday. Gina Cotner, don't you dare get in their way. Now, stay out of their way. Go play pickleball, go golf, go work on your projects, go be on a podcast, go do something else. Get the heck out of their way. Now, if it's not done, that's a whole other podcast, right?

How you how do you develop people? but that is the big thing. You, you, the big boss, you've gotta go have bigger goals that you're at work on so that you don't- I'm just gonna give you this one analogy. So I was just about to say, so that you don't climb back down to the deck, which doesn't make sense until I say, because as a CEO or the founder or the owner, you want to, in an ideal world, command the ship from the crow's nest.

You are way up high, and you're looking out so that you're looking for the icebergs and you're looking for the other ships, and your job is to look for trouble. Why? 'Cause if there's no trouble, you're not needed. Your staff is just fine when there's no trouble. I hate this part of my job. I'm only really useful for when there's trouble.

So but I need to be available and not reactivated. Like, "Oh, you're bringing me trouble? Ah, why are you bringing me trouble?" Well, they're bringing you trouble because you're only needed when there's trouble. So you wanna stay up in the crow's nest. Every now and then you feel that urge to, come down the crow's nest and get on the deck with your crew, and you just wanna fight...

I always, that's the visual for myself, is fight the urge. Do not go down on that deck, Gina. Mm, mm, mm. Because then nobody can see the next iceberg coming. And now you're unavailable for problems, and you, me, I need to be available for problems So there you go.

And that helps you to future forecast when you're up there in the crow's nest.

And think and plan

That looking ahead, looking ahead, where do you wanna be? How do you get there? How do you get there maybe three steps ahead instead of one step ahead?

And- Exactly. That's where you're working on the business. If you're down on the deck, you are in the, you're in the muck. You can't think.

And here's my question for you that's going to be in the newsletter, so don't worry, I'll send you the AI notes for this.

How do you make sure to get that executive assistant who is, your right-hand person, and how do you get them faster by either knowing they're not the right person, so maybe they are a lower level assistant and not, your right hand, or maybe they're just not even...

You just need to say next. How do you get there faster? Because that is a fear for a lot of people, right, is either they're going to be better than me, and it's remembering you're in the crow's nest. You're not right here. You're not mucking the deck, or however you call it. Scrubbing the deck, that's the word.

And then h- the other fear of not having the right person and having to slow down to explain everything when you wanna find the person right away that understands your brain.

Yep. Okay, good. We're gonna dive

into that in the newsletter. That

will be in the newsletter.

So everybody else, that's your little hook to get over to the newsletter, wellnessineveryseason.com.

There's find the newsletter button. It's right there at the top. You'll find it. And then Gina, the last question that will be here and will also be in the notes is, how do we find you? Athena Executive Services, how do we find you?

Yeah, so athenaexecutiveservices.com, that's our actual firm. So if you're curious about having an executive assistant that's part-time, works remotely, if you click on a button on that website that says something like, "Start now," or, "Learn more," or whatever the button says, don't worry, it doesn't bite.

It just sends you to a guy named John. Literally I have one sales guy. His name's John. He lives outside of Philadelphia. He's a very nice normal human to talk to, and you can talk to, talk through things with him. If you mention that you listen to this podcast, then we also will give you some bonus extra hours for no cost in your second invoice with us.

If you wanna find me personally, LinkedIn's great. I'm really responsive on LinkedIn, and I love to keynote speak and lead workshops on these kind of topics, so you can find me there for that or any questions.

Well, thank you so much for your time, and we will catch you in the newsletter.

Great.

All right, bye.

Thank you so much for joining our discussion. If you enjoyed this, please like, subscribe, most of all, share the love with others. Please share this episode so that we can help other people really recalibrate every aspect of their lives so they can be the best version of themselves. And I will see you in the next episode.

I want to have my quick disclaimer here that this is not a one-size-fits-all. If you want one-on-one coaching, let's talk, and we will make sure what wellness means to you is really put into your life, put into practice. I am using my undergrad in applied health and my life coaching experience to bring this podcast to you