Fertility for High Achievers

We are talking about fertility, in particular with those who are high achievers.

Today I have with me Marlene De Rosso, and she has had her own journey here, and now she works with people who are high achievers who are struggling with infertility. She is a fertility advocate because of that. She's a coach, she's an author, a TEDx speaker- leadership executive, and resilient expert.

Yeah. And she has a PhD. So as you can tell, she's a high achiever as well.

Just a tad.

Thank you for being on.

And before we get started, for anyone who is ADHD like me, and they wanna quickly open up the tab and search TEDx while listening- Yes ... what is the name of that talk?

Yes. The name of my TEDx talk is The Secret, Behind, Women Leaders. Let me get the exact name for you- Yeah ... because I don't wanna, I don't wanna mess it up.

And I

can edit

all this up. Two seconds. This is why we don't do live.

Oh, gosh, yes.

Give me a quick second. I'll get it up for you right now I'm gonna put it in the chat.

Perfect, because I'll link it in the description.

Yes. It's called The Secret Battle Behind Powerful Women Leaders.

Ooh, that already, just the title, I wanna listen to it.

That's right, so

I love TED Talks and TEDx Talks.

Yeah, I think

it's just- Sometimes I listen to them in the bath.

Yes. And they're enough to get you, like the crux, you get the crux of what's being said without it being too long, but then it's not too short to where you're like, "Okay, where's the rest of it," right?

Yes. I love it.

So tell us about your journey.

In the outline that you filled out for me, you're a child of Haitian immigrant parents.

Yes.

So I'm sure that in itself led you to be more of a high achiever. You wanted to make sure to succeed because your parents set you up for this by moving to the United States,

...

Set the stage for us here.

Thank you so very much for having me, Autumn. It's such a pleasure to be here. My name is Marlene C. Duroseau. I do go by Dr. Mar. I am a first generation American. I am born to Haitian immigrant parents, and I always like to lead with that because if you didn't do anything else in my parents' household, you were going to someone's school, okay?

And you were going to learn something, and you were gonna get some kind of degree, a certificate or something, because education was always number one in our household. They really strived for us to have an education. And I come from a big family. I have, seven siblings, so there's eight of us all together.

It was really, really important for me to make them happy. And the one thing that they kinda let up on a little bit is that you don't necessarily have to have a college degree now. They just want you to learn something just because of the way that the world is going. A lot of times people are very successful even with trades and things of that nature.

But the key is no one can take away your education, so the more you know, the more it will always benefit you, because it'll always stay with you.

And, coming from a big family, I've always wanted a large family of my own. I remember those times where I said, "Oh, I wanna have 10 kids." Don't ask me what I was thinking.

So to come from that and then ended up, being dealt a hand of infertility is definitely something that I never really asked for. I couldn't prepare for it. Just wasn't expecting that, and it made the journey a little difficult. So on my way, I found myself having to kinda teeter the line of do I focus on, getting this career and excelling at the career because I worked so hard on the education and the certifications.

I'm also a Florida, certified public accountant. I have a master's, I have my doctorate, and then it's also on the personal side trying to grow my family. So I was really caught in the intersection of the two, and that has since driven my life's work going forward.

Wow. That's a lot there

Yes

accomplished.

Yes. Thank you.

No ... they're more relaxed.

No. I am the one before last. So I'm number seven. Yes. Number seven. I just have a little brother and he's only a year younger than me, and my s- the rest of my siblings are older.

And are they all high achievers like you?

Yes, they all are. My little brother and I, we were born here in America and my older siblings were born in Haiti and they immigrated here. So yeah, they're from a different spot, but my brother and I were born here. And you know, it's funny because we're all successful in our own right, and I'm really proud of that because our family just has that kind of dynamic where we lean on each other for the different levels of expertise that we have.

So we have my sister who's a nurse, I have my brother who's the IT guru, I have another brother who's a operations expert, I have another brother who's a lawyer. Like, it's a lot. Yes.

Wow. You don't need to go- outside of your family for help.

No. Yes. Mm-hmm.

Oh, there's so many different areas that we can go.

Yes. Before I hit record, I told you I wanted you to repeat what you were saying.

Yes.

Do you remember what that was?

I do. Can

you repeat it for us? Okay, good. I do.

I do.

It already left my head.

So what's really important when we talk about, the impact of stress, on one's life, when you are a high achiever or a person who, works hard and has a strong work ethic, and it's really difficult because on my fertility journey, I found, being stuck in that crossroads of which one do you focus on more,

growing your career or starting your family. So that was very intriguing to me, and that's what I decided to do my doctoral research on. And my research is the lived infertility experience of women in leadership roles. Because, of course, leadership has been studied, and it continues to be studied, as it should.

And of course, infertility is studied, but more on a clinical, aspect. But never that intersection of how women who are in these high-achieving roles deal with such a traumatic disruption in their life. In interviewing my participants, what I found was something very, very unique where some of the women even probably resented their career or resented their job because they felt that because of maybe the stress that they had and the fact that they couldn't take time off, the fact that they couldn't have that, flexibility to be able to focus on what they wanted to accomplish personally, they felt that stress was adding to their body not being able to conceive.

Because one of the things that your doctor, the fertility doctor always tells you is, "You have to try to get rid of stress." I remember my one doctor said, "Ooh, Marlene, you are wired too tight. You need to relax. Go and sign up for yoga. Go walk on the beach." And I'm like, "It's not that easy. I have this deadline, and I have that," and it's a lot.

So even on your fertility journey, they talk to you about reducing or eliminating stress, but then when you have this high-powered job where you have a team that relies on you, your job requires high thinking, you have to be able to really be strategic, be great at decision-making, conflict resolution, forecasting.

In my job, I became the chief financial officer, so I'm dealing with numbers all day, right? In the healthcare field so it was very stressful. It's one thing to talk about stress because many of my participants, they grew very resentful because which one is it?

Is it the stress from work which is causing you not to be able to get pregnant? But then you're dealing with because you can't get pregnant, you're stressed at work. You can't focus, right? So you're in that weird intersection of the two.

I remember one of my coworkers, I had fertility issues with my oldest and second.

Oh. And then after that I didn't. Right. It's crazy.

Isn't that weird?

Body resets some, at some point. Who knows?

Yes.

Yes. She kept telling me, and I don't drink alcohol.

Mm-hmm.

She, "I'm gonna get you drunk, and then you can go home to your husband."

Right. "

That'll help you relax."

Yes, I

know ... "Yeah, I don't think it works that way."

Yeah ...

it finally happened, thankfully. Right. And then with my second one, we did all the testing, found out that there were some issues, and we scheduled to go over all of the results, and- Right ... I called a couple weeks after I had scheduled that saying, "Well, actually I'm pregnant."

Oh, wow. Yeah. That's amazing.

Just knowing that it was in somebody else's hands, the professionals- were taking care of it just relaxed my body enough. Who knows?

You know, but that's good because sometimes even when we know that, us women tend to be very, type A, and we just can't let it go.

Control. So instead of like, "Okay. Well, I've done my part. It's, you know, up to them. They'll review," and instead of letting it go, we're still like, "Okay. Well, when are they gonna call, and what do you think they're gonna find, so that stress is still there, so kudos to you for being able to kinda, "All right.

They got it."

I did not- "I'll figure it out when they call me" ... enjoy pregnancy. I did not enjoy pregnancy- for that reason right there.

Yeah.

Yeah. 'Cause you have to give up all the control. It's not like there's a window and you can see what's going on.

No. Mm-mm.

And you can't say, "Okay, I'm gonna give birth on this day at this time-"

Right.

and then I can-"

Exactly "...

and I'm gonna heal really well, and then I can continue working," yeah. No, it doesn't work that way. Yeah.

No, it doesn't, unfortunately. It does

not. Even if you're induced, it still takes- Yeah ... hours.

Exactly.

Or if you decide to have a C-section-

Yeah.

Mm-hmm ... there might be people before you who there were issues-

Right

I know that after my oldest was born, I hemorrhaged for several hours. I had a vaginal tear- and they couldn't find it.

Oh, wow.

So I was that person who bumped whoever had a scheduled cesarean because I had an emergency and needed to go in the OR-

Exactly.

After hemorrhaging for several hours.

So you just never know.

Exactly.

And it can be so scary, especially if you don't have any children- because you don't know what to expect.

Yeah. And that's the nuance of life, right?

We make those plans, and things don't always go according to plan, and that's exactly what I talk about in my book.

It's called It'll Happen by 30. And even if someone hasn't- had an, infertility experience, the book is exactly about that. You have everything seemingly planned out, but then unfortunately it doesn't happen that way, so what do you do? Do you give up, right? Because some people tend to just, "Okay, well I'm not dealing with it if it's not this way," and they just give up.

Or do you allow yourself to pivot and adapt to whichever the new way is gonna be, so it's really interesting when we have to deal with life and pick up the pieces when things don't go how we planned it.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, what do you recommend for that? For some people, okay, well if this isn't happening I'll focus on my career right now.

Right. Or maybe this isn't the right marriage and that's why. A relationship. Right. Mm-hmm. Or the people who are so focused on, "I'm gonna go through the whole infertility journey"- and they're so focused on that that it destroys the relationship.

Right.

Or maybe should look into adoption. How do you know when you should pivot?

Yeah. And that's a fantastic question. And I have to tell you, there's no roadmap or no, formula for that.

What I

can tell- Are there any questions that- Yes ...

are

there questions that are, like, reflective that would help them-

Yes ...

know whether they should?

Yes. And that's where I was getting where you as women, and this may sound frou-frou, because I used to think so too, and we don't listen to our intuition, we don't listen to our body, we ignore the signs, so to speak.

But a lot of the times when you want something so bad, regardless of what it is, and it's not happening, you start to change your mindset to the point where you're looking within. And what I mean by that is, how much of this can I control? How much of this if I put my two hands in it I can make a difference?

And for me, what I found, because my husband and I started our journey, we were young. I think, our first appointment was in 2002, which means I was 21. And I'll never forget, I remember going into the fertility specialist and the nurse that works with the fertility doctor, she's like, "You know, you guys are so young.

What the heck are you doing here? Why are you here? Just go have fun and go try and figure it out," or something like that she said. But in a loving way. She wasn't dismissive or anything. And I told her, I said, "Well, I need to come now and get it checked out because if I wait-" And, you see me and I'm older, the first question you're gonna ask me is why did I wait so long, right?

And she said, "You know what? I'm happy you mentioned that to me, 'cause I never looked at it like that, so I'm not gonna say that to my patients anymore. You just wanna do the workup, when you come in." So I say that to say I started young, and because I was young, and that's what you always hear,

Oh, you have time. Oh, you have time," so I kind of played into that. And me playing into that or leaning into that was, all right, well, because I don't have the kids yet, let me focus on buying a house. Let me focus on, getting my, master's. I kind of kept myself busy doing other things while I'm still trying different methods in the fertility world.

But I had the option of doing that because I was younger. So let's say I was someone who was a little older, how long do you wait? How long do you try? When do you go to the next level? And then to answer that, I'd say depending on where you are in your life and what type of sacrifices you're willing to make.

A- and that, is you looking within, so you say to yourself, "So what if this doesn't happen? Does that mean I'm just not going to be a mom?" Because is the goal being pregnant, or is the goal being a mom? And that's where the mindset shift happens, because if the goal is to become a mom, that'll, even though you weren't thinking about it, that allows you after maybe two years, five years, seven years, whatever the years are in trying, 'cause you'll know- You'll say, "Okay, you know what?

I'm open to looking into adoption. I'm open to possibly, surrogacy. I'm open to freezing my eggs." Because sometimes you'll find where, like you've mentioned to your point, it might be a relationship that isn't quite the right fit or you notice things aren't going so well, so now you're contemplating, "Do I stay in the marriage?

Do I not?" Whatever it is. So to specifically answer the question, I would say at whatever point that you're trying to make a decision when you're on your journey on what to do next, kinda have a Plan B. 'Cause oftentimes because we don't have a Plan B, we stick, stick, stick to what we thought we wanted that you really, even if the sign was in front of you to pivot, you won't 'cause you can't see it.

You know what I mean?

Well

So yeah, that's kinda sorta the best way I can, I can describe it. And just like to your point, right when you say, "Oh, I never thought I'd..." Because you know, another thing too, Autumn, we have to talk about this too. The culture is a big deal. I have a lot of, women who are Jewish that I work with.

I have women who are Haitian like me, Hispanics, people who are Christian or Baptist, whatever. So between religions, culture, it's another stigma and another taboo where they are so focused on doing it naturally that the thought of- Becoming a parent that's not natural it doesn't even cross their mind.

A reason why that happens is because of their own cultural or familial or social pressures that they have. So I think being open to a possible plan B, do I do if it doesn't go according to my plan or how my mom wants it or how my church wants it?"

That allows you, when you see that you're on that path and nothing is changing, you're more open to looking at other options.

And I think even for those who are listening to this and they don't have fertility issues- or they're not even aware that they do- you just spoke to something that is universally true.

Yes.

Is how many times are we, so stuck on something that we don't have a plan B- Correct ... like, for anything.

Mm-hmm.

We've all been there, or we all will be at some point- exactly ... and have to have that moment of like, "Hold on." And then the other thing is that... two more things.

Mm-hmm.

The other thing is that we don't share our trials

Where when we do, we realize we're not alone.

And that's how we can seek help.

Exactly.

And then the other thing that came up is you can, while you're struggling with this thing, you can take your energy and put it towards something else.

I really like that

Because the thoughts, your mind is so powerful. And we don't often give ourselves credit for how powerful our minds are. And I know me, when I want something, oh my gosh, that's all I can focus on. So I have to tell myself, "Okay, I don't wanna make myself go crazy," in the literal sense of the word, because life, fortunately but also unfortunately, life keeps happening.

Just because you're working on what you want and it hasn't happened yet, life doesn't slow down, right? Life doesn't stop. So at that point, you have to be able to say, "Okay, let me focus on something else while I wait," because life is gonna keep going.

And it's so unfortunate too, because throughout my journey, I also had a loss.

And as a high-achieving woman at work with this executive career, dealing with a loss and being postpartum and having to go back to work, life didn't stop for me. So I had to figure out a way, how would I soothe myself? How would I get over that stress? How would I become healed physically and, psychologically and emotionally in dealing with that?

And it's not easy because, yes, people will send you condolences, or yes, they'll, give you some bereavement time, but the work has to go on. And that's something else that also causes you to be resentful sometimes or just question why we're doing what we're doing, because you don't even get the time literally to grieve.

So it's very important to be able to, really take that time out and really assess, because your mindset is really what's going to help you focus. So in my case, when I had to go back to work, after my loss, I had to tell myself, "Okay, if I focus on the fact that I don't wanna be here, then it does no one any good," right?

I'm at work, but I'm not working. It's not like I can be at home, so at that point I have to tell myself, "Okay, instead of working maybe nine hours or 10 hours like I normally do, let me go in and just do four hours, and really focus in those four hours, not think about what happened, and try to focus on the four hours."

That's four hours that I'm not beating myself up, woulda, coulda, shoulda, why, when, where, who, maybe next time. It's too much. It's too much.

So going back to your research-

Yes ...

what have you found, especially that is society says this, but this is what you actually found as facts?

Even though society knows that women can do it all, we don't get credit for doing it all. It becomes expected, but that expectation of us just making sure it gets done, we also don't get compensated for that, whether it's financially, with flex time. W- so I'm working with women to teach women, society is gonna come to you anyway.

Why do they come to you? They rely on you. They know.

Although they try to give you a hard time because you're in and out and you're not working at your desk for nine hours straight, "Oh, no, here she goes again. She has... Oh, she's not there? Oh, okay, well, the kids," or whatever the drama is that they, paste on us women, but yet they know they can rely on us, right?

So through my research, I found that work performance for these high-achieving women that were dealing with this disruption, in some cases it went up even more. They were even more productive. So they had ebbs and flows in their work performance because to not think about what they're going through, they tended to overcompensate at work, right?

But yet society shows that if they're under stress, they can't work, which is why they don't give us the provisions that we need, because they say we're not reliable. But then in the real world, we are reliable, right? We are the ones getting it done in spite of whatever's going on.

And the other thing I found in my research was the duality, and in some cases multiplicity of roles.

We're able to shift and adapt and be like chameleons. From 7:00 AM in the morning until 10:00 AM when you get to the office, you have your trying to start a family hat on, right? The minute you get to that job, that hat is off and now you're in manager mode, right? And then maybe through 1:00 PM after you've settled in with your team and got them all situated, 'cause as a leader, as a woman executive, you're also an employee, so then you have your own work that you have to do, right?

So being able to juggle those roles and do them effectively- Yes, you need support. Yes, organizations and your team should be able to support you so that you can get it done, because at the end of the day, we're gonna get it done.

The question becomes, do we get it done in a stressful way because we just feel all of the pressure?

Or yes, we get it done, but we get the help that we need. And us women need to be able to ask for the help and be okay with accepting the help. Because a lot of times, because society says we can't do it, which is why we don't get the raises, we don't get the promotions, we don't get this, that, and the third compared to the men, which is a fact, just because they say it, we're actually living it.

So it's okay to ask for the help or when the help is allotted to you, accept it.

Because my research also found that when women are in leadership roles, the company stands to make between 13 and 31% more profit to their bottom line. That's a lot. And I don't have to be there 60 hours to do it.

But because women have just been given such a hard time in terms of the role congruity, we are tasked with being the primary caretaker in the family, but then because of that, we're also penalized. It doesn't make sense, so the research was just very, very compelling with the amount of information and the type of information we were able to uncover just speaking with women that had a similar lived experience.

That's... There's so much to unpack there.

Yes ...

listen to this even if you don't have infertility.

Because there's so much here.

I remember one job, it's totally illegal. I will tell you this right now, but I was asked- if I had children.

Oh, they can't do that.

Before you were hired?

Oh, wow.

Yep. Because they wanted someone- who did not have children. Yeah. I did not at that time, so I-

Right ...

and I let them know, because they wanted to make sure that I would be there for all the hours.

Right. Exactly.

And they said that I had time off, but it was one of those where they gave you the frowny face

Yes

Yes ... when you took the time off. Yeah. It was-

Exactly.

Total awful place to work.

They automatically paint us with the brush of being unreliable or automatically you're going to be absent if you are a mom or, if you are...

Let's say you're not a mom, but when the time off comes, if you're married, you may wanna take a vacation, with your partner. Versus someone who's single with no kids, in the company's mind you're always available and you can just get it done. And it's hard because I remember there are two things I wanna share.

I remember, one of my participants, she had a boss where literally there's a guy that came in. Long story short, he got the promotion and the role, ahead of her, and he was newer. She had more tenure than him. And basically they said he could work the 60 hours a week, and with you, we never know when you're going to have to leave because the school called Okay, but the work is done.

I don't understand. So it was tough. And she didn't hear that officially from, like in an official capacity from the company. She kinda heard it through the grapevine. But she ended up leaving, you know, and she just made sure she picked another place to work that didn't really feed into those type of, stereotypes and that discrimination, quite honestly.

And the other thing I wanted to share with you, and this just broke my heart. The one lady, she was dealing with infertility. She worked in the hospitality industry, which is always very busy, right? You know, hotels, restaurants, cruise ships, the whole thing. And she was there. She was going on four or five years.

She was there every day doing her thing, and she always kept her personal life, quiet. And she was going through infertility, and she got her results, and they were not, positive. So she took a break, and of course not at an opportune time. But you have a right to take a 15-minute break, right?

So she takes her break, and, she's in a corner by herself in the garage somewhere crying. You're just having a personal moment to kinda let it out so that, you're not getting personal or, emotional at work. So a coworker saw her, and somehow, some way, the coworker let her boss know that the lady is having a hard time and she thinks it's because her fertility treatment, 'cause she hadn't confided in anyone.

So this one person, either they overheard a phone call, 'cause that's the other thing with my participants. You're trying to have this experience, this personal experience, but you're at work. And when they call, they call. Like, sometimes you can't really get away, so even if you're trying to whisper, somehow somebody found out. They told her boss. Long story short, the man end up calling her the next week and said, "Okay, so it's come to my attention that, you're on a quest to, grow your family. I know you just got married. Congratulations, but I have to tell you that in order for you to grow, you know, if you continue on this path, the position won't be available for you because the next role that we want to, put you in or we see you in will require lots of hours.

And if you go through with this, that's just not going to happen." Can you imagine? He said that to her,

Yeah, 'cause it's a guy saying it So,

yes, so to your point-

But this really goes in with women, especially moms, know how to multitask-

Exactly ...

and they can work for you part-time doing-

the same amount of work as your other full-time employees.

Exactly.

Because- Exactly ... we know how to multitask, we know how to focus and get it done.

Yeah.

And it's just so interesting that we are still stuck...

no, you're fine.

My air purifier went off, my dog's gone off. I had to mute the microphone 'cause she was barking.

Yeah.

So-

That's fine ...

it's so interesting that we are still stuck on that we need to work at least 40 hours a week to be considered full-time to get our benefits. Mm-hmm. When how many people are just eking out those hours? They've already- gotten their work done, and they're- Yeah

over here doing whatever, shooting the breeze with their coworkers, whatever.

Exactly. Just

warming the seat to get those 40 hours, however many hours they're working.

And it's hard because, and that's why I love when we talk about wellness, and I speak to women a lot, and sometimes in speaking with women, you know, I used to think, "Well, I won't..."

You know, if you do speak to a younger crowd, are they willing to listen or will it sink in? And then I thought, you know what? They need to have a different experience than we did, right? Us coming, ahead of them.

And I feel like now that I'm in, perimenopause, my perimenopause has started very early.

Today is the first day for the past two weeks, that I'm feeling more like myself, 'cause I just wasn't feeling good. My hormones are all over the place, and I'm just literally not well. But, nothing hurts. I'm not in pain, just that the hormones, the nausea, the, joint pains.

Like, you just feel off, right? Unbalanced. And I say that to say if I knew then what I know now, what the reality is, because when you're in the crux, as women, of trying to start your family, growing your career, you think the world is gonna end if you don't get these things. You're so focused on being the best, doing it right, proving to I don't know who or where or why, proving that we can do it alone, and we're strong, and we're confident.

Just to get to where I am now and realize, "Oh, no. Yes, please. Bring the help. Oh, no, I'm not doing that. I don't do things after 6:00 PM." And it's, if only we would tap into what I call that power earlier on, because our mindset earlier on is we're on this mission to prove something, whether it's to ourselves, whether it's to our partners, our friends, our family, whoever.

Just to get on the other side and you're like- No, because everyone else is gonna do what they wanna do anyway, so the only person you're hurting is yourself. And my mom told me long before I had children, she's 80 now, she turned 80 two weeks ago, and she told me, she said, "Marlene, there is no reward or no trophy waiting for you at the end of this.

So when you get older, if you can afford yourself a certain lifestyle to get help, don't be like me and beat yourself up. For what? W- what- what's coming? Who's gonna give you the award for the person who beat yourself up the most?" And then you get older, when you're supposed to try and rest and be well and, but your body is already so used to being in overdrive that it's even hard when you get older for your body, it doesn't know that state of calm, and even when she was telling me that, I'm looking at her like, "Oh, okay. Okay, lady." But now that I'm older, oh my gosh, and I'm 45. I started perimenopause early. I had my last son when I was, 37. And I have to tell you, I just didn't feel like myself. So I figured, "Oh, okay, well, I'm a little older.

Maybe that's why it's taking a while to get back on track." And all along the past, you know, he's eight now, he turned eight last Saturday, but it's like, yeah, my body was already starting to go downhill. And what is this rush to go back to work? What is this rush to do it all? N- no. No.

So my advice to, which is why I speak to women regardless of their age, 'cause it's never too late to pivot, is really take a step back and assess what makes you happy.

What things do you have to do? Is it going to stress you out? Is it gonna cause undue stress, can you control it? Is the action you are taking or want to take as a result of what somebody else needs? Or is it as a result of what you need? And it's hard, because as women, we're, natural nurturers and we're selfless, but sometimes you have to take care of yourself and let people see that you put yourself first so that they can treat you that way as well, and that you're not stressed out.

Because it all comes back to we have to be well. And if you're stressed out and always overworked and overthinking, and I still work hard, I'm still hustling and bustling, it's not to say that, but I'm a little bit more selective in, how I approach life and what I do. And sometimes everything doesn't have to get done all at the same time.

Moves. If I have my little priority list, some things are no matter what have to get done, but the rest goes tomorrow or the next day because back in the day, and I'm not sure if you're like this too, Autumn, oh my gosh, if I had my to-do list, you see I have checklists everywhere, right?

I have, notebooks, I got my pen, and if it's not done, oh, I couldn't sleep. And it sounds simple, but you just wish everybody could get to that point. So I just wanna go away from being the person that's always so tightly wound and everything has to be perfect, and you realize it doesn't, and it's okay.

And the fact that it's not perfect is perfect. It's okay.

So many things. First of all- Yes ... that would help with fertility right there.

Yes, absolutely.

Another thought that I had, and I did not fully understand this until several kids in, which I- Mm-hmm

apologize ahead of time, those that are judging me, and I don't blame you for judging me, 'cause I kind of- ... would judge me for this too.

Not everybody should have children.

Yeah.

And it makes sense- I agree ... because look at my parents. There's your example right there.

Yeah, I agree. But,

and I wonder if you've worked with people who, on their journey, have realized, "Actually, this isn't what I want.

It's society has told me this."

And then we're also, we feel like society tells us that we should have a certain number of children.

Right.

And this goes back to what you were saying what is good for you?

Correct.

And then what is good for your relationship?

Mm-hmm.

For me, I'm actually grateful, looking back- Right

I'm grateful for my fertility problems because it gave me that time to draw closer to my husband-

Yeah ...

because holy cow, children make a relationship harder.

It's

Especially for the first, like, when they rely on you for literally everything.

Yes.

And you can't sleep or- Yes

you're trying to be intimate with your significant other and they wake up, yes, yes. It's so hard- It is ... on your relationship with yourself to start with.

Mm-hmm.

Right? And you can't show up and be in a good relationship with anybody if you don't have a good-

relationship with yourself first.

Yeah.

So yeah, it totally goes along with that whole- Ignore what society's telling you

And it's amazing you said that because I attended, a few book fairs, after releasing my book, and I just meet so many people.

And, oftentimes if I'm at a book fair, I'm also speaking, on stage real quick just to introduce the book or talk about what it is, and I've had a significant amount of women come up to me and they're like, you so much for what you're doing, because your messaging resonates with me."

And the one lady, I'll never forget her name. Her name was Brenda. And she said, I realized kids weren't for me, and it took for me to go through this fertility journey and really ask myself who am I doing this for?" And with her, she had gone through, like, three partners, and she was having fertility issues with all three And then she come to find out, and it's so funny that these men, they didn't wanna get tested, right?

So all along the issue wasn't her, it was them. How someone ends up with three men with male factor, I don't know, right? That's how the universe sometimes works this stuff out. But she was so thankful. She goes, "I live such a fulfilling life. I've come to the realization that I think I wanted it because" she also had siblings that had a lot of children, and then, you know, her mom and everyone else, "When are we getting grand babies?"

All the things. So some of the men that she rushed to have these relations with, she wasn't even, like, in love with them. It's more like trying to fulfill this dream of everyone else. And she just told me she didn't feel the motherly instinct, but she's a great aunt. She has plenty of godchildren.

And I worked with her for about six months. We worked together Because sometimes she still deals with her own issues just because people keep reminding her of how she was selfish and why she didn't do it, and

she was just dealing with a lot emotionally and psychologically. But we worked together to get to the point where she's like, "No, that wasn't for me, and I'm happy it happened the way it did." So I'm really happy you said that, because a lot of times we do put that extra stress on ourselves based on what other people want, and some people probably just weren't meant to do it, you know?

And that's okay, you know?

Yeah.

So I know it's towards the end- Yeah ... especially because you have your group that you're meeting with and coaching- Yeah ... tonight. Yeah. And I'm saying this on purpose for those- ... that wanna join the group.

Yeah.

So tell us how we can get into your world, and if we want the group coaching like you're doing later tonight-

how do we do this?

Yes. Thank you so much. You can definitely get into my world by visiting my website. It's www.mcdbe.com. And the M-C-D are

my initials and B-E just stands for business enterprise, so it's mcdbe.com. That's my website. And all things about the group coaching, my one-on-one coaching offers, my speaking, everything you'd like to know about me. I have free resources, on the website that you can definitely tap into. And that's the thing about us women, we're so multifaceted.

So I'm not only the fertility lady, I also offer help with career, just based on my own career trajectory from payroll to CFO. I help people with their career, with career coaching, and I wrote also two children's books in honor of my young children, in honor of my boys that I had via IVF, I wrote a book.

So that has taken me on a different trajectory too. So I work with schools and have workshops for children, whether it's emotional regulation, emotional regulation for adults too, and, just teaching people it's okay to be yourself, especially to little kids. It's okay to be unique. And also because you want people to accept you for what makes you different, because you are different, you also learn inclusion, to accept people for who they are, right?

And all things Marlene and Dr. Mar can be found on my website. And then my name is my social media as well, whether it's LinkedIn or Facebook, and Instagram is MCDBE. So that's how you can catch me.

Perfect.

And then really quick before we get off- what are some examples of some of the freebies that you have on your website?

I have a, productivity tracker, because sometimes we feel like we have 10,000 things going on, and you don't know what to focus on. So I love the productivity tracker because I did it based on what's called the Pomodoro method. So you pick something that you know has to get done, and then you time block, whether it's 25 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever it is, that no matter what, this is what you do, and then you're able to track it so you can check things off to get things done.

And for me, it has been a lifesaver because sometimes we're so overwhelmed, and whether you're a college student, whether you're a mom, whatever it is, it helps you to really get your productivity in and get tasks done instead of just thinking about it and being overwhelmed. In terms of, women, I also have a confidence checklist where you go in there and just different affirmations and things you can do and exercises that you can do to just make sure you keep your confidence up, and sometimes we all need that daily reminder, so that's on there.

I have a freebie to a IVF lawyer, a reproductive lawyer, where you might be going through your reproductive journey and something's going on with the clinic or something like that, and you feel you need additional help to find out what to do. Attorney Rader is on there. And then I also have a 30-day affirmation calendar for the children.

Yes, and they love that one. You can go on there and download, and it's a 30-day calendar, and the children can go in there and say those daily affirmations, to themselves so a lot of good freebies on there.

Perfect.

Yes ...

thanks for offering the, like, here's a little treat.

Yes. Absolutely.

Thank you so much. And then if you are ever interested to come back on and talk about emotion, emotional regulation- I'm all for

it. Absolutely.

Like, we will totally schedule that out.

Yes.

I'll let you go- get ready for your call, your next call.

Yeah.

Thank you.

No, I appreciate that, and that emotional regulation is, that's the one that I'm doing tonight, is really important because it- it's... We don't think about it. No one teaches you how to emotionally regulate. Think about when you were growing up. We're going to learn how to iron. We're gonna learn how to wash.

We're gonna learn how to clean. We're gonna learn how to make the bed. We're gonna learn how to write. We're gonna learn how to read. We're gonna learn all these things, but no one teaches you emotional regulation. And in a way, it is like a competitive advantage, where people know that no matter what chaos is going on, you know, around you, people know you'll be calm.

You can make better decisions. You're able to, regulate well in different emotions, and it allows you to get through whatever you're getting through in life. And it doesn't mean that what you're feeling isn't real. It doesn't mean that you're becoming someone else or you're faking it. No. You just know how to regulate, your emotions because your body will react.

That's what your body, the physical specimen that is you, will react in a way to protect you, and that may mean, your thoughts are racing, your heart is racing. You get sweaty. Maybe you get dizzy. Your body is trying to signal you that something's going on. So all of the chaos in the world is gonna happen, right?

That, that's just what it is. So the only person you can control is you. So when that happens, how do we regulate to make sure that you don't lose yourself and get stressed and sick because you're, emotionally unwell?

I can see how that relates to what we've been talking about in your world.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Well, thank you, and I hope you have a great rest of your evening.

Thank you so much for your time, and thank you for having me.

Bye.

Bye.